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- rainbow
- 04-24-2006 02:36:34
Thank you for your suggestions. As a result of this, my final say is that I've including a public warning message regarding the usage of normal PaintBBS, OekakiBBS and ShiPainter applets in Microsift Virtual Machine and that I've included measures on how to retouch and operate the applets using Sun Java and/or other alternate browsers.
Some of these issues regarding oekaki applet retouching, Microsoft VM and Sun Java can be unresolvable due to numerous circumstances beyond our control.
- Waccoon
- 04-23-2006 02:22:59
Everytime I try to retouch picture 13, the picture comes up all blank. I deeply apologise if my grammar is confusing you.
Ohhhh... this is a problem within the applet, not when you are *submitting* a picture to the board.
Yes, this is the dreaded Java Cache problem. Rather than load the pictures directly, the oekaki applets import the image data from the browser cache. With Microsoft VM and PNG files, this rarely works correctly. With Sun Java, or with JPEGs and GIFs, it works well, but there are problems where if you retouch a number of pictures one after the other, the images can get mixed up, and the wrong image will be loaded into the applet. If the image that's supposed to be in the applet has different dimentions than what the applet expects (example, 500x500 instead of 300x300), the image will come up blank.
This problem affects all the current applets. I presume they all use the same technique to get the canvas.
Other than using or updating Sun Java, you can try flushing the browser cache, and make sure you use animations when drawing. When animations are saved, retouch is much more reliable. Frankly, I think everyone should use Sun Java, and just not use OekakiBBS. It's just when I talk about removing the applet, people keep begging me to keep it. 
I don't know if I'm right about this correctly, but Perl scripts that were designed to save picture data were posed as a security breach if owners weren't careful.
PHP isn't any more secure than Perl, and in some cases, it's worse. The paint save code was just "copied" from OekakiBBS without any real understanding of what was going on. Parsing the picture data is actually very easy.
Despite the fact that the bugs in OekakiPoteto are difficult to fix, starting a brand-new oekaki system is a good start for you. I'm awfully sorry to see that your WaxPoteto is almost the end of its life, but there are still lots of bugs that need to be found.
Fixing bugs takes forever, and changes tend to break all kinds of things in obscure places. I want to make a new board based on an existing, well-tested BBS.
- rainbow
- 04-23-2006 00:43:12
Wacoon wrote:
OK, so if you retouch the newest picture, it is updated properly, but if you retouch an older drawing, the newest picture is overwritten? If this is still not right, you'll need to give me a step-by-step explanation, preferably including the picture numbers. I'm sorry, but your grammar is confusing.
I'll include picture 13 as a example: http://ppgrainbow.oekakiart.com/pictures/13.png
Everytime I try to retouch picture 13, the picture comes up all blank. I deeply apologise if my grammar is confusing you.
You are gonna have to register and run some retouching tests on PaintBBS, OekakiBBS and ShiPainter applets to make sure what might be causing the problem. I can e-mail you samples of what picture 13 looks like before and after the picture is retouched for clarification.
Wacoon wrote:
OekakiPoteto 3 used Perl scripts from OekakiBBS (the BBS, not the paint applet) to save picture data. This was rewritten to PHP by Marcello in OekakiPoteto 3.5. Which language is used to save the picture data doesn't matter, so long as the data is parsed the same way.
I don't know if I'm right about this correctly, but Perl scripts that were designed to save picture data were posed as a security breach if owners weren't careful.
Wacoon wrote:
I'm not sure, as there is no documentation for the applet. I think it has to do with getting a password from the server ("security_click"), which is compared to the "passwd" and "passwd2" parameters. I believe the "security_timer" is how long the applet waits for a response before the request times out, and "security_post" is whether this security sytem is required to post pictures on the server. So long as "security_post" is disabled, the applet seems to work on other servers.
Good point, if the "security_post" were to be enabled, the applet wouldn't work unless you entered the password.
Wacoon wrote:
I'm not sure if I want to add it to Wax, though. I don't know what the HTTP header looks like. I'd prefer to write a new oekaki with a modular applet framework, so people can add the applet simply by copying the files to their server. OekakiPoteto is not easy to extend, and I'm having enough problems as it is fixing bugs.
Note that Wax is almost end-of-lifed. I've already started planning my own, brand-new oekaki system.
Despite the fact that the bugs in OekakiPoteto are difficult to fix, starting a brand-new oekaki system is a good start for you. I'm awfully sorry to see that your WaxPoteto is almost the end of its life, but there are still lots of bugs that need to be found.
In closing, if I can't get PaintBBS 2.22_8 to retouch properly in Microsoft VM, I might have to either revert back to PaintBBS 2.04, impliment a coding that retouching will only work in Sun Java or disable the retouch feature altogether.
PaintBBS 2.04 was the last time that a applet would work on OP.
- Waccoon
- 04-22-2006 21:59:53
What I mean is retouching the current drawing and the first drawing on the index.php file. Retouching older drawings causes the picture to overwrite that picture as well. The problem might have to do with my computer, or it might be something else.
OK, so if you retouch the newest picture, it is updated properly, but if you retouch an older drawing, the newest picture is overwritten? If this is still not right, you'll need to give me a step-by-step explanation, preferably including the picture numbers. I'm sorry, but your grammar is confusing.
I recall that when Oekaki Poteto 3 was released sometime in early 2002, the programme was fully converted to PHP, meaning that OekakiBBS 1.31 had to be discontinued completely due to the way how it relied on Perl Scripts.
OekakiPoteto 3 used Perl scripts from OekakiBBS (the BBS, not the paint applet) to save picture data. This was rewritten to PHP by Marcello in OekakiPoteto 3.5. Which language is used to save the picture data doesn't matter, so long as the data is parsed the same way.
What do these values, "security_click", "security_timer" and "security_post" have to do with this?
I'm not sure, as there is no documentation for the applet. I think it has to do with getting a password from the server ("security_click"), which is compared to the "passwd" and "passwd2" parameters. I believe the "security_timer" is how long the applet waits for a response before the request times out, and "security_post" is whether this security sytem is required to post pictures on the server. So long as "security_post" is disabled, the applet seems to work on other servers.
I certainly hope that Marcello will grant you permission to use the Lascaux Sketch programme and impliment it in OP.
I'm not sure if I want to add it to Wax, though. I don't know what the HTTP header looks like. I'd prefer to write a new oekaki with a modular applet framework, so people can add the applet simply by copying the files to their server. OekakiPoteto is not easy to extend, and I'm having enough problems as it is fixing bugs.
Note that Wax is almost end-of-lifed. I've already started planning my own, brand-new oekaki system.
Heck, if OekakiBBS.com, the maker of OekakiBBS applets were to shut down due to the fact that it relied heavily on Microsoft Virtual Machine, they should put the blame on Sun Java due to the bad security.
Should, or could? Given the code quality of the applet, I'm pretty sure Java is not at fault.
- rainbow
- 04-22-2006 14:40:07
Waccoon wrote:
"Replaced" meaning that the current picture gets overwritten if you retouch the drawing.
Current picture? Forgive me, but I don't quite understand what's wrong. You mean editing an old picture will overwrite the current 1st picture that's on the index? So, editing an older picture on page 2 will overwrite the latest picture on page 1? If that's the case, I haven't encountered this problem.
What I mean is retouching the current drawing and the first drawing on the index.php file. Retouching older drawings causes the picture to overwrite that picture as well. The problem might have to do with my computer, or it might be something else.
Waccoon wrote:
Yes, both drawing and retouching don't work right with OekakiBBS. The applet has problems with Sun Java, and no workaround has been found to fix this. I've removed OekakiBBS from Wacintaki altogether, and will proabably do the same with Wax. This has been going on for some time, and Poo seems to have no interest in fixing the applet, as even the latest version has this problem.
I've encountered no problems when I first test something on a OekakiBBS. I do like to keep that OekakiBBS applet though, but I should implement a disclaimer that OekakiBBS will not submit drawings or retouch in the latest version of Sun Java. And the problem might also have to do with the security settings on the site as well.
Waccoon wrote:
You can't tell what Virtual Machine someone is using on their computer. Before removing OekakiBBS, the best I could do was add a discalimer to the Wacintaki draw interface warning about the compatibility issue. People still kept asking me for help, though, so I eventually got fed up and dumped the applet altogether.
There are a few other oekaki applets available, but most of them are real crap. Crap code just seems to be the norm with anything related to oekaki. I tried working with PictureBBS, but it has a security lockout feature, so it wouldn't submit anything. Lascaux Sketch is a very good applet, but it's still in beta, was supposed to be officially released a while ago, and I haven't heard any updates for months. Once I write a new modular framework for easily adding applets, I'll ask for official permission to include Lascaux Sketch. Maybe I can get permission to use the beta version.
I wish someone would make an applet that was freakin' open source! Licensing issues are very muddy when it comes to these applets, too. I don't want to do anything illegal.
I recall that when Oekaki Poteto 3 was released sometime in early 2002, the programme was fully converted to PHP, meaning that OekakiBBS 1.31 had to be discontinued completely due to the way how it relied on Perl Scripts. Speaking of security lockouts I might want to look into these lines:
Line 69 - <param name="security_click" value="0" />
Line 70 - <param name="security_timer" value="0" />
Line 72 - <param name="security_post" value="false" />
What do these values, "security_click", "security_timer" and "security_post" have to do with this?
Licensing new applets that can be available for download can be uneasy for you as well. I certainly hope that Marcello will grant you permission to use the Lascaux Sketch programme and impliment it in OP.
Waccoon wrote:
Yeah. Lots of people at wwwsuteki.nu have been working on this for years, and no resolution has been found. The applet is just not using Java correctly (most likely, the security code uses bad HTTP or a Microsoft-specific function call).
OekakiBBS has been around since 1998 and it has always worked well with Microsoft VM and the reason why it doesn't like Sun Java is what you mentioned and to my knowledge, there will possibly never be a solution to fix the errors. Heck, if OekakiBBS.com, the maker of OekakiBBS applets were to shut down due to the fact that it relied heavily on Microsoft Virtual Machine, they should put the blame on Sun Java due to the bad security.
You have to register for my oekaki and run some tests on the PaintBBS, OekakiBBS and Shi Painter applets to make sure it's working properly for you. If so, I might have to put a disclaimer that retouching pictures might not work properly in Microsoft Virtual Machine and consider implimentation in order to force retouching to only work for Sun Java and disable retouching for OekakiBBS due to unresolvable technical issues.
- Waccoon
- 04-22-2006 02:54:39
"Replaced" meaning that the current picture gets overwritten if you retouch the drawing.
Current picture? Forgive me, but I don't quite understand what's wrong. You mean editing an old picture will overwrite the current 1st picture that's on the index? So, editing an older picture on page 2 will overwrite the latest picture on page 1? If that's the case, I haven't encountered this problem.
If not, I found that retouching will work on OekakiBBS applets and it will only work in Microsoft VM.
Yes, both drawing and retouching don't work right with OekakiBBS. The applet has problems with Sun Java, and no workaround has been found to fix this. I've removed OekakiBBS from Wacintaki altogether, and will proabably do the same with Wax. This has been going on for some time, and Poo seems to have no interest in fixing the applet, as even the latest version has this problem.
I wished that there were some alternatives, if not...I might have to either impliment code that retouching will only work in Sun Java and that OekakiBBS will only work in Microsoft VM or disable retouching in PaintBBS and ShiPainter all together.
You can't tell what Virtual Machine someone is using on their computer. Before removing OekakiBBS, the best I could do was add a discalimer to the Wacintaki draw interface warning about the compatibility issue. People still kept asking me for help, though, so I eventually got fed up and dumped the applet altogether.
There are a few other oekaki applets available, but most of them are real crap. Crap code just seems to be the norm with anything related to oekaki. I tried working with PictureBBS, but it has a security lockout feature, so it wouldn't submit anything. Lascaux Sketch is a very good applet, but it's still in beta, was supposed to be officially released a while ago, and I haven't heard any updates for months. Once I write a new modular framework for easily adding applets, I'll ask for official permission to include Lascaux Sketch. Maybe I can get permission to use the beta version.
I wish someone would make an applet that was freakin' open source! Licensing issues are very muddy when it comes to these applets, too. I don't want to do anything illegal.
Additionally, I tried to convert a drawing to a OekakiBBS and I wound up with a image transfer error.
Yeah. Lots of people at wwwsuteki.nu have been working on this for years, and no resolution has been found. The applet is just not using Java correctly (most likely, the security code uses bad HTTP or a Microsoft-specific function call).
- rainbow
- 04-21-2006 15:11:29
"Replaced" meaning that the current picture gets overwritten if you retouch the drawing. That's what I'm talking about. I was wondering if it has to do with the retouch problems, the latest version of Sun Java and caching problems in Microsoft VM.
If not, I found that retouching will work on OekakiBBS applets and it will only work in Microsoft VM. OekakiBBS doesn't seem to like Sun Java. What I can do is to modify the values of the applets to reflect that it was drawn on OekakiBBS until an issue has been resolved.
And as for ShiPainter Normal and Pro, it's the same thing for PaintBBS.
I wished that there were some alternatives, if not...I might have to either impliment code that retouching will only work in Sun Java and that OekakiBBS will only work in Microsoft VM or disable retouching in PaintBBS and ShiPainter all together.
By the way, did you mean paintBBSget.php?
Additionally, I tried to convert a drawing to a OekakiBBS and I wound up with a image transfer error. I even tried to do a drawing on OekakiBBS and I got a Image Transfer error as well. 
- Waccoon
- 04-21-2006 07:06:48
By replaced, do you mean all the comments get lost? Does it get replaced by a picture that doesn't belong to that artist?
For a picture to be edited, some things must be sent to the code that actually saves the image.
SHIPAINTER:
Both show up in the "url_save" applet parameter:
mode=picedit
edit={number of picture to edit}
NOTEBBS:
Shows up in the "url_save" applet parameter:
edit={number of picture to edit}
OEKAKIBBS:
Shows up in the "cgi" applet parameter:
edit={number of picture to edit}
If all this information is sent, make sure that nothing changes the $edit variable in any of the picture save code (notebbsget.php, shiget.php, getoekakibbs.php). Also make sure that any changes you made to the applets to prevent them from being displayed to non-members doesn't interfere with the $edit variable, which may cause some important information from showing up in the applet parameters.
- rainbow
- 04-21-2006 01:47:11
I've got another new problem.
Okay, I did some retouching of my recent test oekaki drawing and instead of the picture getting edited, it gets replaced completely. Now I know for a fact that I did some editing of the paintBBS.php, noteBS.php, noteBBSa.php, oekakiBBS.php, oekakiBBSa.php and shiBBS.php files and made the applet not appear when the user is not logged in, doesn't having drawing or animation access, but I might be running into some technical issues when it comes to the modification of those files.
If one of my members starts complaining that one of their drawings that they safety saved got overwritten, instead of edited due to technical issues, they're not be very happy at all.
How can this be fixed and what files do I have to modify in order to correct this error?
My WaxPoteto oekaki has been very buggy lately since it reopened.